I was speaking with Patrick Giunta, Esq. a successful foreclosure trial attorney in Fort Lauderdale about credit bids, necessary and indispensable parties, standing and strategy and I thought I would make a blog out of it. His direct number is 954-928-0100 and his office is located on Federal Highway. But you will probably have more luck calling our customer service numbers for the intake information, which is probably what he will tell you to do. (see below). If you want to bypass customer service and do your own intake just go to INTAKE FORM AND SUBMIT IT.
BTW — the title to this Blog is taken from similar wording in a Fordham Law review article published 6 years ago which I think can still be accessed on the right column of the home page of this blog. It was obvious then just as it is obvious now that we are headed toward chaos by making the business records exception the RULE and the hearsay rule the EXCEPTION.
If you are seeking legal representation or other services call our South Florida customer service number at 954-495-9867 and for the West coast the number remains 520-405-1688. In Northern Florida and the Panhandle call 850-765-1236. Customer service for the livinglies store with workbooks, services and analysis remains the same at 520-405-1688. The people who answer the phone are NOT attorneys and NOT permitted to provide any legal advice, but they can guide you toward some of our products and services.
SEE ALSO: http://WWW.LIVINGLIES-STORE.COM
The selection of an attorney is an important decision and should only be made after you have interviewed licensed attorneys familiar with investment banking, securities, property law, consumer law, mortgages, foreclosures, and collection procedures. This site is dedicated to providing those services directly or indirectly through attorneys seeking guidance or assistance in representing consumers and homeowners. We are available TO PROVIDE ACTIVE LITIGATION SUPPORT to any lawyer seeking assistance anywhere in the country, U.S. possessions and territories. Neil Garfield is a licensed member of the Florida Bar and is qualified to appear as an expert witness or litigator in in several states including the district of Columbia. The information on this blog is general information and should NEVER be considered to be advice on one specific case. Consultation with a licensed attorney is required in this highly complex field.
The big issue confronting litigators representing homeowners in foreclosures and other related litigation matters, is that you can’t get any credible factual information from a credible competent witness with personal knowledge of the loan or personal knowledge that can establish a foundation for the business records exception to the hearsay rule. Actually all of the legal issues examined by this blog are intertwined. It starts off as an inquiry into the voir dire or cross examination of a witness who is proffered by the attorney for the bank in preparation for laying the foundation for the introduction of documents into the court record as evidence. But the closer you look the more you end up also including jurisdictional issues, standing, and whether the necessary and indispensable parties to the action are present in court or even know that the court proceeding is in process.
My conclusion is that if the judge is not open to a direct argument regarding jurisdiction and standing then you can reopen that same issue by pointing out the reason why it is important in your case. Starting off with jurisdiction and standing sounds like you are trying to get out of the legitimate debt with a legal gimmick. If you really want traction, you must present your argument and evidence in a way that shows the judge that the issue is not whether the borrower should be off the hook for the loan, but whether the foreclosing party has any interest in the loan. I suggest working backwards from the foreclosure auction. Florida statutes are pretty clear. And so other statutes of other states. The court can order the auction to occur but only an actual creditor (on the loan that is the subject of the dispute) can submit a credit bid in lieu of cash.
The unfortunate tendency of judges sitting on the bench to treat the business records exception as the rule can only be offset by demonstrating in a clear and convincing manner that the rule is that hearsay evidence is not admissible. The exception to the rule might be business records but only if they are cloaked in a presumption of credibility. The general use of business records as an exception to the hearsay rule is applied when the business records sought to be introduced are from the records custodian of an independent third-party who has no interest in the outcome of the case. Florida statutes allow for introduction of business records without the records custodian but only under restrictive circumstances.
The point is always to use evidence that has the highest degree of credibility so that the judge can make an informed decision.
I would argue that the business records of a litigant should never be used as an exception to the hearsay rule even if the judge thinks that it is convenient to do so. If a lender has a legitimate claim they can certainly ask for a stipulation from the borrower as to the legitimacy of documents, but if the borrower refuses I see no reason why the lender should be exempted from the requirement that would be imposed upon the borrower if the borrower was attempting to introduce documents as business records and an exception to the hearsay rule. Both the “lender” and the borrower must prove their case without playing with the rules of evidence.
In all the cases that I have reviewed I have yet to see testimony from a witness who actually knew anything about the loan or the documents. Why not?
If the foreclosing party actually was a legitimate party who had an interest in the loan or who had the authority to enforce the loan then they would easily have access to actual records custodians who had actual original records who could also testify as to the way the records were received and maintained and how the records were secured — which is all about credibility of the evidence again because if the records were accessible by a large group of people than the possibility of the records being amended, altered, fabricated, added, removed, etc. is exponentially increased.
The court might be correct in a technical sense that many different types of parties could initiate a foreclosure proceeding without possession or ownership of the note. You can arrive at this conclusion using the Uniform Commercial Code or common law. That is all on the contract side of the legal argument. When you get to the property law side of the legal argument, you find yourself in the position of a shadow boxer and losing by sheer exhaustion.
The creditor is clearly the party who owns 100% of the account receivable (whether you want to refer to it as a bond receivable or a note receivable is another story). The creditor is clearly the party who would lose money but for obtaining legal redress from the court. And that is only the creditor who has the right to make a credit bid at the foreclosure auction in lieu of bidding with cash, which is what everyone else has to do.
So you end up with the court denying your motion to dismiss or motion for temporary injunction if it is based solely on standing, possession of the note or status of the holder or holder in due course. But what you don’t have is the creditor identified nor the amount of the account receivable quantified as to that creditor as shown on the books and records of the creditor, which would include all payments and disbursements to or from all sources. The banks have thus far been successful in directing the attention of the court to solely the accounts of the sub servicer as though that was the account receivable of the creditor. It isn’t. Just look at the bond and the securitization documents and you will see that the amounts accounted for by the sub servicer do not include any categories that are in the amounts to be accounted for in the books and records of the actual creditor(s).
This leads to the absurd situation in which the court orders the foreclosure to go forward without specifying a creditor or an amount due (unless the court has approved discovery into the accounts receivable of the actual creditor, and taken evidence of same into consideration for the entry of the final judgment). This could lead to someone else buying the property for cash (and very little cash at that). In effect the judgment of the court will be to strip the creditor of the supposedly secured interest in the collateral (the property).
It gets even more crazy when you consider what might happen next. The creditor now prevented from seizing the collateral by virtue of the error of the trial court, sues the borrower for the money due. But because of the prior action the borrower will defend using the doctrine of collateral estoppel among other things. If the borrower prevails on the issue of collateral estoppel, the court will have succeeded in first stripping the creditor of lien rights and then blocking the creditor from collecting on the legitimate debt (if any) upon which the court relied when it granted standing to a foreclosing party that was not a creditor.
That analysis leads us inevitably to the issue of whether the real creditor as defined above is a necessary and indispensable party to the action. I can see very little to argue for the proposition that the creditor is anything but a necessary and indispensable party in an action concerning title to real property.
And once you get to that point, why is it necessary to have the foreclosing party who is not a creditor? So whether you call it standing or just common sense it seems impossible to analyze this issue without coming to the conclusion that in some manner, shape or form the creditor must be brought into the courtroom, or at least must be given notice that is proven in court, and that the books and records of the creditor must be introduced in the absence of a stipulation from the borrower as to the amount due.
The books and records of the creditor could obviously be manipulated, fabricated, changed and falsified and the creditor would have an obvious reason for doing so. Therefore, the business records exception to the hearsay rule should never be applied to a litigant with an interest in the outcome of the case. They have both motive and opportunity to change the records to suit themselves.
And they do not need to use the business records exception in order to establish the unpaid debt because they have actual live witnesses with actual personal knowledge of various aspects of the loan transaction, credits and debits to the account, and activity between the creditor or the creditor’s agents with respect to receipt and disbursement of insurance, credit default swap proceeds, investments by investors, and other matters that are addressed in the bond receivable but never mentioned specifically by the note receivable (which is why I question whether or not a contract was ever completed).
82 thoughts on “Will the Real Creditor Please Stand Up?”
Wow! Here is the same Canadian Minister of Defence tearing down the bankers!
http://youtu.be/wrJiCKj3BsE
Which puts Obama’s speech about putting away criminals who can no longer be tried for their past crimes into FEMA camps more clear:
http://youtu.be/bSdvN-WyUHk
Listen and consider he is speaking about the “cabal” and their plans for WWIII. Perhaps the government is finally on to their game? Maybe Agenda 21 is a good thing?
I just watched an interesting video on the Freemasons and pineal gland. If we know flouride in the water “calcifies” the gland, the gland is our “connection to the universe/God”, then maybe the goal of creating a NWO is more noble than we assume? If you read about NESARA, it paints a pretty picture of the NWO as being utopia. I guess I’m feeling optimistic about mankind today, but maybe the house thing is temporary pain leading us to a greater gain? Stripes said in her religious story that the “war” would last 7 years. Mayans said world would end 2012 (actually just moved into a new solar system in 2013). The collapse in 2007 to 2014 would be 7 years, and things feel like they are changing lately. Perhaps that is a silly thought, but it was nice to think of a happy ending instead of doom & gloom all the time…
I’m sure I sound like a crazy person, but the Minister of Defense in Canada did just admit to aliens and a secret financial “cabal” in a recent video. Perhaps it’s all connected?
Canadian MOD
http://youtu.be/NjxtfEQF89U
Freemasons & Pineal Gland
http://youtu.be/4u1DFRwSeso
Have no problem with that. You always go back to the same place, Stealing other’s property. In a true legal system, you NEED to prove something belongs to you. You cannot go to the DMV with a copy of the title…how can you steal a house with one? Jeez, this is very simple on the face.
IMO, LPSDocx are counterfeiters’ nothing more! The documents, notes, they copy are the same as passing fake hundred dollar bills.
Poppy
The FTC is making a decision and looking for opinions whether William Foley of Fidelity Title should be allowed to buyback LPSDOCX Press in submit complaint page and tell what you think of LPS documents
The state insurance department sent my complaint to the servicer (along with my request for the MERS Milestone). The servicer replied to my complaint via my state insurance office and they sent it to them. Note that they only sent the 2010 refinance Milestone because they had to go back and re-create a fake MERS record for my 2007 loan later. Take screenshots of your MERS search results monthly! There should be a record for EVERY transaction (origination, refi, etc).
Be advised – every document you submit to any agency in your complaint is sent to the bank (with or without your knowledge). Then the bank does what is needed to try to fabricate docs based on what you have sent. Be sure to keep a few Aces in the hole that you can surprise them with in Court – otherwise they will squash you. I haven’t even shared everything I’ve found for that very reason reason. Be smart because you are playing against cheaters and double-agents. Someone who befriended me recently was actually working for a title company as a closing mgr and wanted to know what I knew. Trust that alarm in your gut that says things aren’t on the up and up here – it’s your pineal gland (aka “third eye”) trying to save your butt! Lol!
There is a great post on The Burning Platform which lists lots of other things to gather to help your fight – I highly recommend it. Lots of great info being shared there by wonderful people.
For stripes – it turns out I’m a far removed descent of one of these lines you speak of. I had no idea but discovered it while on this journey to understand “why”. My family is kind though and has always been religious and giving to those less fortunate. I was never spoiled, and had to work for everything. That is why I took on this battle for those who could not fight for themselves. Some of us are good, just so you know. Is there any meaning to my birthday having lots of 12s and falling before Christmas? Or my SS# is mostly 6’s and 9’s? Does that mean anything with regard to the crypto stuff they believe in?
Also CFPB is a division of the Federal Reserve. Not sure if you guys knew that. That’s why Stripes feels Warren is a “sell out”. I would disagree and assume she is trying to help, but likely has he hands tied by powerful shadow gov’t. Just my two cents…
@tbtfnomore
I hope you emailed a thought on why William Foley of Fidelity Title should not be allowed to buyback LPSDocx .
@tbtfnomore
I hope you emailed a thought to the Federal Trade Commission on why William Foley of Fidelity Title should not be allowed to buyback LPSDocx .
Senator Warren chews them up and spits them out—very sweetly:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000182337
@ all
I think of Stripes as a one woman army First you have to know your enemy.
This wonderful country does not have one enemy we have many The Nazis, the commies, the muslims and we have our own home grown enemys who want our money, our properties, our freedoms It is a lot to absorb Like an abscess it all converged on this country in a short time
Stripes is not the problem she is a messenger. I don’t text so I find I have to look up what letters mean and she spells differently but she is a force that is noticed.
. If we want this great country to be what we always had we have to start cleaning up the rot. Whether it is a politician , a judge, a banker, a lawyer a title company or a document
Don’t let Bob G or Christine think for you that give up you lost – think like Churchill never never never never give up
We had a family saying about a relative who if he was thrown out the back door, he would go in the front door nothing stopped him and he would always get to where he wanted to go.
TBTF – HOW did you get your state ins lisc dept to fork over the Milestone report? Interesting.Why would they even have that? ~thanks
I truly believe these foreclosures have more to do with the Federal Government buying up land for the UN Agenda 21. They want the land (farm, gas, oil) but don’t want to pay the homeowner or state to get it. Have any of you read the “Freddie Mac Act” and how it ties into “Energy Conservation Lending”? My mortgage origination company is still in business, it was created 30 years ago (right when the big oil folks decided they wanted to start investing in “green” energy and carbon footprinting), and was created by attorneys from military-industrial firms like Honeywell and Lockheed? You have to really dig into your state’s corporate records and articles of incorporation filings to get this info, then research EVERY name you find. That is why thee banks are stiting on so many of these homes they foreclosed to get. If Stripes was serious about her house being burned, that would make sense too… they want the LAND, not the HOUSE. Do some research on land grabs by the Federal Government (in this case supported by “environmentalists” in favor of “population control”) and the fraud starts to come together.
A few thoughts from me:
They cannot identify the creditor. Ask them directly to identify creditor in an Affadavit signed by the creditor (someone in a position to legally bind the company, aka C-level person). Compare creditor to party named on mortgage insurance policy.
Ask for the Federal Reference ID for the payoff wire, or a cancelled check. They can’t show one. Both of these are Patriot Act violations.
Reconcile your accounting to show the gross theft of funds and misapplication of payments. (Yes, I know they didn’t really lend you money, but you need to work your way there with the judge… start with easy stuff)
Point out the language about co-obligers who endorsed the Note, but then point out the importance of an endorsement “without recourse” and how that nullifies any claims to foreclose.
Watch for duplicate HUD statements with nuanced changes (Closing agent, sums returned to borrower, file numbers). Likewise with your entire closing package – they created a second “loan” out of the transaction you *thought* was taking place (money purchase/refinance was really an equity loan)
Get the MERS Milestone Report. I had luck pushing my state insurance licensing department for it, as well as the OCC. Once it shows the beneficial party, and that the servicer took the Note in default, they are nothing more than debt collectors and required to follow the FDCPA laws strictly. Did they? How much did they pay for these debt collection rights?
Who is accounting for the loan on their General Ledger? Who is accounting for this loan to the IRS? Ask for records to support this information.
If the MERS Milestone Report shows a government agency, force them to use due process to take your property per the Constitution. Or, if you have the account number for wiring purposes from the closing docs, trace who OWNS that account. FYI – Chase Bank is the bank of the US Treasury and IRS, just look at your tax return check for the routing and account numbers.
Check the mortgage documents online of your neighbors. See who has the same loan originators. Nothing is by accident with these banks. Also note who does NOT have the “seised of my estate” language in their mortgage.
Not sure if that helps any. I highly recommend starting with a spreadsheet. Put together a timeline, note every party involved and their role (servicer? creditor? depositor? debt collector? fiduciary?), every file number, every dollar amount. Look for discrepancies. Search for information on every name on your docs – who do they work for? Are they licensed in your state? Have they been convicted of crimes? Are they domestic or foreign? Are they doing work under a “doing business as” entity?
Pay special attention to dates when taxes are due and homeowner policies needed policy limit increases. Were escrow buffers claimed BEFORE the bill was even sent to the servicer? Did your homeowner’s insurance require increases after a refinance? Are you paying insurance on more money than your home is worth via appraisal values?
Again, I’m not an attorney, but I have put together some clear documentation of their lies from origination to present, and it is evident in almost every document!
Here are a few of the issues in my docs that you may find in your paperwork too:
Loan originator is a natural gas investment company owned by military firms
Loan originator holds loans of many neighbors too
Missing payoff wire for refi
Two HUD-1s (should be a HUD-1A for a refinance)
Equity line of credit for full value of home
HUD-1s have discrepancies in parties
Person who signed HUD-1 wasn’t at the closing
Servicer had knowledge and copies of BOTH HUD-1s
HUD-1s had different file numbers, one without mortgage insurance and one with it
Page numbers on recorded mortgage don’t match – what pages were taken out or added before recording?
Rider to mortgage filed in county records doesn’t match
Changes to mortgage rider were made after I signed, but I didn’t initial them. This version is recorded in the register of deeds?
Person who took my refinance application over the phone had a criminal history
Company that did the second “fake” closing to open the equity line of credit wasn’t licensed in my state
Escrow balance was short several thousand dollars due to bait and switch of the two HUD statements – so starting balance was shorted
Truth in Lending Document shows wrong starting loan amount
Amortization schedule is missing mortgage insurance payments – a sure sign of an equity loan being passed off as a refinance
Accounting of payments hides “suspend account” and “fee account” columns – thus it cannot reconcile properly
Release of Mortgage had my name blacked out so that it was returned to the bank after recording, instead of me
Most people don’t get their Note and Mortgage back after refinance. I got mine by requesting it from the Trustee on the Release… and she had to order it from its location WITH THE SERVICER?
My REMIC shows as having settled many months ago on the Freddie Mac website
References to the PLATs in the country records is incorrect on the refinance mortgage “legal description” and assignment, which points to fraud
Promissory Note was endorsed by a supposed VP at bank – but that person was just a document manager?
Forged signatures on Release of Mortgage and Assignment of Mortgage
Can show “teams” of robosigners were used for 6 months at a time to sign assignments, then a new team was hired. Member of my robo-signing team all got their Notaries on the same day
REMIC number on Release of Mortgage and REMIC on mortgage AFTER 2010 refinance were BOTH for REMICs that closed within 3 months of my 2007 origination?
Foreclosure mill claims servicer is the creditor, which contradicts the MERS Milestone report and the mortgage insurance policy
I put all of these documents and the backup proof into a concise binder, with tabs to call out each and every discrepancy. Then i showed the accounting errors, etc. I am focusing on failure to identify a creditor and lack of consideration/misrepresentation in the contract, but i have these other pieces to show a pattern of pervasive fraud (?), incompetence (?), unwillingness to provide clarification behind WHY there are so many errors and issues throughout my “loan”
Good luck everyone! Keep up the good fight and remember we are in this together. Sharing and helping each other (not bickering or name calling) is what will get results.
TBTFNoMore: fantastic post. I am copying and putting into my system. I am going to make it into a list and table to identify each part. My situation is not exactly the same, but many, many similarities. I had two HUD-1’s and from what I can tell my purchase was put through as a Refi not a new purchase. Of course, the atty doing the closing was tried and convicted of wire fraud related to “flipping houses with dual transactions”, but, of course, maybe he really did not get any money illegally. Maybe the scammer was scamming the scam. Also, mortgage broker was fired for her part in the scam, but not arrested. Still doing business–amazing!
TBTFNoMore
You are right one has to connect all the dots I’m working on the dots between the Judges,their properties, the Title Companies and why Judge Schlesinger did me wrong.
that may be squat as all I have been tinkering in is Ginnie, not F&F. Big difference – and I think Fannie & Freddie are more common than GMNA…..???
Patrick – that sounds right.
This is what I have been asking over and over on here –
Depending on what one has in their case..Out of all the little & big things, what is the strongest that people have experienced or observed? You can have your forgery, your this, that…I have many but I dont know what to “pick” that screams to the judge the loudest the minute you open your mouth. Something that can destroy the opposition. One would THINK – in a severe transparent laid out on the table ” this is my Note/mtg, your honor” ………”this is what the bank has brought fourth as my Note/mtg;”…and it is a fricken blueberry pancake.It is a car title. It is perhaps the same document but your signature is upside down. BLATANT FORGERY. Is that not enough for SOMETHING? (not my case just an example)…..What is ‘enough’ ? Tis true, these sorts of things should be based on pure ‘ these are the facts’ law…that is a main issue here…It is seen in the judges eyes. your theory – I have no #22 like that. But – I do have (mortgage) – GET THIS –
#19 RELEASE:
“Upon payment of all sums secured by this Security Instrument, Lender shall release this Security Instrument without charge to Borrower. Borrower shall pay any redecoration costs.”
….so. My servicer has written to me and admitted my loan is a security in a pool with Ginnie.
I cannot recall at this very moment where…allregs…MBS guide some thing like that and other places …..when bundled and placed —investors bought them…right? THERE IS MY payment of all sums secured.
and-
if their little after the assignment behind the curtains endorsement sticks- says right in The Note – each signature on it holds it’s payment obligation. The endorser signed it….I have a few of these sorts of things but WHAT do I choose? Argue contract law? Argue technicalities? I dont think a judge wants to decide on those sorts of things at first ruling. Thats when you have to appeal, no? – I said I am no expert here – at all so someone throw the book if I am wrong.
see this: http://www.ginniemae.gov/doing_business_with_ginniemae/issuer_resources/MBSGuideAppendicesLib/Appendix_III-05_b.pdf
…………says here that servicer (issuer) just RELINQUISHED any and all rights it may have in the mortgage.
clear as day – how in the hell – legally – does the servicer fight that?
HOW!
you may not have to own the loan to foreclose if on behalf someone else if it is their wishes too, ok –
BUT A FORECLOSURE- IT’S FLIBBEN A MATTER OR EQUITY!
YOU CANNOT TAKE INTEREST IN INTEREST THAT WAS NEVER GIVEN! ……nesides if they can come up with that check to “buy” or “lend” you money they just signed off on you.
see this:- NO nevermind. Im done for now –
You know what stripes, it does not matter what you think of people, if the information displeases you, ignore it!
How is it you are 100% right and everyone else is wrong?
Just a blip from Moneynews today, ponder this:
Marc Faber, the noted Swiss economist and investor, has voiced his concerns for the U.S. economy numerous times during recent media appearances, stating, “I think somewhere down the line we will have a massive wealth destruction. I would say that well-to-do people may lose up to 50 percent of their total wealth.”
When he was asked what sort of odds he put on a global recession happening, the economist famous for his ominous predictions quickly answered . . . “100 percent.”
Faber points out that this bleak outlook stems directly from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s policy decisions, and the continuous printing of new money, referred to as “quantitative easing” in the media.
Faber’s pessimism is matched by well-respected economist and investor Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital. Schiff remarks that the stock market collapse we experienced in 2008 “wasn’t the real crash. The real crash is coming.”
Schiff didn’t stop there. Most alarming is his belief that daily life will get dramatically worse for U.S. citizens.
“If we keep doing this policy of stimulus and growing government, it’s just going to get worse for the average American. Our standard of living is going to fall . . . People who are expecting Social Security can’t get all that money. People expecting government pensions can’t get all their money . . . We simply can’t afford to pay them.”
Equally critical of the current government and our nation’s economy is real estate mogul and entrepreneur Donald Trump, who is warning that the United States could soon become a large-scale Spain or Greece, teetering on the edge of financial ruin.
Trump doesn’t hesitate to point out America’s unhealthy dependence on China. “When you’re not rich, you have to go out and borrow money. We’re borrowing from the Chinese and others.”
It is this massive debt that worries Trump the most.
“We are going up to $16 trillion [in debt] very soon, and it’s going to be a lot higher than that before he gets finished,” Trump says, referring to President Barack Obama. “When you have [debt] in the $21-$22 trillion [range], you are talking about a [credit] downgrade no matter how you cut it.”
From the article:
“But what you don’t have is the creditor identified nor the amount of the account receivable quantified as to that creditor as shown on the books and records of the creditor, which would include all payments and disbursements to or from all sources.”
I would argue this in turn means that the notice of default, mandated under section 22 of the uniform mortgage instrument, wasn’t perfected. This notice is a condition precedent. Without a perfected notice, the plaintiff can’t proceed to foreclose on the collateral.
To know that somebody is actually in default and the accurate amount needed to cure, you must know who the creditor is and be intimately familiar with that creditor’s books of account. Lack of perfection – is this not an acceptable affirmative defense in a judicial proceeding?
@ml
okay, Marilyn…so what are you doing still hanging around here?
You lost your condos 10 years ago, and you’ve been thrown out of court and nearly sanctioned.
You’re not an atty, and you don’t have any legal advice, tactics or strategies (that I can tell) that would help others avoid your fate.
(If you do have such advice, presumably you have shared it with us by now.)
So what’s the point? We have heard from you and stripes and carrie a bazillion times now. And it’s all the same stuff…over and over and over again, ad infinitum.
My advice to you is to go find something productive to do with your life. You’re of no use to anyone here, as far as legal matters go. And no one really cares to hear you, and stripes and carrie continue to rail on and on about all the injustices that have been done to you in your lives. We got that. We’re all checked out on the Nazis, the commies, the crooks, the thieves, the corrupt politicians, lawyers, judges, banksters, etc., etc., etc. Do you understand what the sane folks here are trying to tell you three gals? We don’t give a shit about your problems and we don’t want to hear about them any more.
Because, quite frankly, there is nothing that anyone here can do to fix your lives.
This is supposed to be a legal foreclosure defense blog. It is not an outpatient clinic or institution for the mentally disturbed. So, with all due respect, please Scram.
@ Bob G My message to everyone is stand up and fight, Never give up When a Judge or a Court is corrupt stand up and fight for our Republic , No Judge has to be listened to when they war with the law of our US Constitution.
Bob G is the one to get out of here giving wrong advice to the fraud fighters. Give your misinformation to Commie Christine.
@ML…like I said, WE GOT THAT !!!!
Are you that retarded? How many times are you going to tell us that? Nobody wants to hear your broken records anymore.
@Bob G
I believe the Federal Judge who knew the facts of my case far wiser and less biased than you.
Take a number and have a seat, Marilyn. The doctor will see you shortly.
Following the law for these “punks” is not that difficult. The lawyers are “whores” being paid to corrupt the very thing they swore to uphold.
These foreclosure mills are nothing but halls of prostitution…again, it is just my opinion, but if the low-hanging fruit(s) either way, is cut off at the knees, the kingdom will fall! Change up the game…without the lawyers the banks are “nothing”…IMO
Poppy
You are right the state courts are like private clubs .Attorneys will not and cannot say that if they wish to continue being a lawyer
This pro bono movement is to control the courtroom and not hearing from people like Stripes, you and I.
Once the worms come out of the can you can’t put them back in.
Something might have happened to her brain with shingles, Hmmm, I think so!
The question I keep asking myself; are we a country of laws or not? It appears I have the answer to that; only for some and not for other’s. Last I knew the law regarding real property, land and contracts have not changed. IMO, the DMV has more oversight and rules than do the courts with conversion, fraudulent inducement and contract violations, which is where I see most of the great arguments, under the law…we live in a crazy time.
I will add: IMHO, the state courts are the hardest to gain traction. They are all in a “private club” and we are not in it, nor will we be invited anytime soon!
I get it…and the debt continues, with payments going to people who have no losses and lent nothing!
IMHO, in court that is not enough, was my point. Regards
“a warning sign that maybe, just maybe, this country has really, really sunk very low in intelligence and education…”
Or there is a price for everyone and everything!
Last time I checked a legal education was a specialty and very expensive. The vast majority of lawyers cannot effectively defend this…it runs through the government and sanctioned by it! These cases, IMHO, are also about strategy, procedural savvy, and one’s ability to understand the criminals mind-set. This is a game for them…you must think like them, without being like them…again just my opinion. The flaws in all of it, they do the same things over and over and they are lazy…the law is not the only thing that drives the vehicle.
And for the record; comes right from a lawyer; it is much harder to acquire the house back, than it is to defend the action prior to a sale>>>
Everyone knows these thugs committed fraud, but your signature on the promissory note has implications to the judge. If you cannot get past that, the case is downhill. I too have been in multiple courts and have many people I have become friendly with, whom have gotten dumped on their proverbial asses, struggling to explain why they have not made payments.
The research is invaluable. Every word must be defined and the language must be picked apart, to see what it/they mean, not your interpretation of what it means, very different things.
And I will continue to say what I have found; there is not one creditor, nor is there a viable, collectible note any longer and that is where the rubber meets the road.
My goal here, is to give any information I have right or wrong. It is up to the reader to look into what anyone here is saying, each case is slightly different. And a win is not necessarily a free house…it is all subjective.
Poppy
I have received other information that even long after someone has moved into your property if they bought it from someone who didn’t own it they “bought nothing ”
Nemo dat quod non habet, literally meaning “no one gives what he doesn’t have” is a legal rule, sometimes called the nemo dat rule, that states that the purchase of a possession from someone who has no ownership right to it also denies the purchaser any ownership title
hard yes but fight on
From what I see you posted Gjonah, you look like a skinhead and an anti-Semite.
And Christine a commie looney So as I said Stripes is right about infiltration of these foreign commies nazis to our AMERICAN shores.
Bob G,
You’re the only one left with the true legal mind on this site and you appear to agree with me on the sad, pathetic ML case. Know why so many people lose in court? Because they don’t understand their own court system, don’t know how it works, file lawsuits or motions without any knowledge whatsoever and have the temerity to pretend to teach law to a judge while using legal jargon and principles they don’t have a clue about. And then, when they lose, they attack the judges reputation and expose themselves to slander and defamation actions!
Let’s face it: that poor thing managed to piss off 4 judges
And a few on this site don’t realize that loading motions with allegations of violation of constitutional and civil rights, 2nd amendments, discrimination and the likes not only doesn’t help their case but, oftentimes, hurts it.
Well, despite what the imbecile is saying, foreigners seem to get it right. The mere fact that this country is being sold house by house should serve as a hell of a warning sign that maybe, just maybe, this country has really, really sunk very low in intelligence and education…
Stripes,
You Imbecile. You moron. You disinfo and misinfo fool.
You keep spouting Nazi BS.
The same Nazis that our General Patton wished to ReArm and Invade Jew run Russia! (Read General Patton ON THE JEWS) The same Germans General Patton called ‘the greatest race in Europe’ FOR Standing Up TO Jewry and Communism and their creativity and production abilities.
Did you not see the 1933 London Daily Headline 7 yrs before WW2?
‘JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY! JEWS OF ALL THE WORLD UNITE!
“Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child.” (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, Oct, 1937
‘Hitler will have no war, but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon.’ – Jew Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934
Why did Germany Invade Poland?
http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/judicial-inc/Broomberg.htm
@Bob G
I am sorry you might feel I am attacking your knowledge but when I see someone giving an opinion about me without knowing the facts, I fight back
Let me again explain my issue with Judge Alice Schlesinger. I was in front of Judge Schlesinger for one issue only. That of state court Jurisdiction
My orders to show cause why two void ab initio judgments signed in state court when the case was under Federal Jurisdiction should not be MARKED vacated.?
From that came Judge Schlesinger wacko decision
No one filed more motions, appeals etc back when it was happening. It was a time when Fidelity and their net works were still hidden a working behind the scene with their net work of attorneys, their fraudulent documents in the courts and filing them in the county registers all over this country
The corrupt debt collector attorneys who pursued these foreclosures while hiding four of my mortgage checks are long gone from Astoria Federal S &L they had showed up with Fidelity ny FSB when Astoria Federal S & L became successor in interest to Fidelity (a failed bank)
I don’t know who you are, who you side with who you work for etc and what your interest is but I will win. The titles have never left me Astoria Federal admitted they didn’t own my two condos when the long gone attorneys auctioned them off and that the title companies are stepping in to indemnify
And in came the crooks Thomas Malone of Fidelity Title and David K Fiveson of a non existent Title company he called Coronet but they had EQUITY for Judge Schlesinger
@ML
how much were your two condo’s in manhattan worth?
Bob G
Looking at the sales in the building, I would say over a million.
@ML
Doesn’t make sense. Your props are worth over a million bucks, and you don’t hire an attorney to represent you, and then you wait 10 years to try and vacate the judgments.
These are not the actions of a rational person.
Next question: where did you get the money to buy these two condos?
Bob G
I don’t know if you are a New Yorker or every came to NY when the WSOAS was going on I exhibited there for over forty years I painted little watercolors with messages one by one and I earned my living dollar by dollar and paid my taxes and loved what I did By coincidence lots of the clerks had my watercolors hanging in the clerks offices. I was a landmark there. I am one of the most known unknowns in New York
I didn’t want or need an attorney This fraudulent foreclosure started by the Fidelity hiding four of my mortgage payments then claiming they never received them and the Bank silently dropping them into envelopes and mailing them back to me.
The first NY Supreme Court Judge Edith Miller gave me fourteen counterclaims against the bank for Fraud, Malfeasance etc When the Corrupt debt collector attorneys MJRF got to Judge Miller she reversed herself I went to the NY district attorney He said a Judge cannot do this Report the Judge, Report the Attorneys Judge Miller retired and there by began my journey. The DA sent me to Janet Reno because there were Federal Banks
What the corrupt attorneys MJRF didn’t realize while they were filling motions for the foreclosure saying I defaulted were that the four checks had markings of being posted to the bank ledger I did not go into the bank at 2 am and open up their books and machinery. I am not going to go thru my documented journey.here
Eventually I was ousted by this fraud wrote a book sent it to Senators, Judges etc and a kind federal judge in Washington go back to New york open up the case in NYSC , there are no latches. to void ab initio judgments I came back and opened up the case but not before I had a three year bout with shingles. If you can live thru shingles you can live thru anything
Long story short is how I ended up in front of Judge Schlesinger. And Judge Schlesinger told me how she too was devastated by shingles near her eye because she needed her brain. for her work. Something might have happened to her brain with shingles.
From what I see you posted Gjonah, you look like a skinhead and an anti-Semite.
And Christine a commie looney So as I said Stripes is right about infiltration of these foreign commies nazis to our AMERICAN shores.
There’s no such thing as a “real creditor” these days when notes are digitilized, reproduced by jerkies, A has a note but it’s a custodian for
– pick one – B to Z, no wait, it’s A’s note or claimant # 498 (not even an B to Z candidate or A). A bailee may now even enforce a stinking
note per the ucc. Well, if there IS a “real creditor”, courts aren’t looking for him and we’re party to blame.
That’s why in my opinion, we have to stop, take a breather, and get back to the threshold injury requirement of FRCP 17, which one in possession of a bearer note has not established by his possession of a bearer note. Until we do, I think we’re just going to keep spinning our wheels. If we have any salvation, it’s in that injury requirement first and foremost and right after that, the rules of evidence to rid ourselves of bs inadmissable hearsay.
Anyone who has a bankster after them where there was anything funky about it and then files bk, be sure to talk to the your bk attorney about
how it might be possible to retain standing to nail the banksters for
bad acts which occurred prior to your bk petition. If you (your bk attorney) don’t list the claims with some value and or cut a deal with the bk trustee, you could lose the claims to your bk estate and find yourself with no standing to assert the claims.
Also, Bk attorneys who run chop-shops and don’t do things the law says they must may be sanctioned under 707(b)(4)(c) and surprisingly, rule 9011. I don’t like chop-shops.
Stripes – wow! I have not heard that in years! Who IS the real slim shady….fudge. ….haytime here…. catch yall in the morning
SKAA`RRROOOOOO`WEOOOOD !
*enters vote for UKG*
The only way to stop this junk going on, for a start- is to eliminate all these new age cartoons, keep the bugs bunny etc.., explode all handheld & stationary video game things and I don’t know- enforce non shit head parents? Most “the people” dont know, dont care..and it ends that way and starts with their kids ( most, I said ) if we rely on THIS GENERATION of young’ins to do anything – we. are. screwed.
Nice. I like it. I’ll leave it to stripes for this one, as yes – You will do a better job, your own job, than I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=jeYscnFpEyA
Stripes,
Nazis did Not ever take the homes from their citizens.
Rather they jailed the Banksters that left them destitute and starving with 50% unemployment. They jailed the Freemasons that supported the Banksters.
They warred with the Communist Bolsheviks, aka Jewry and invaded Poland after 5500 German women and children were killed by Polish Marxists slithering in the Danzig ala Bromberg Massacre. Danzig Corridor was cut off from Germany via Versailles Treaty.
They built the worlds greatest economy with no gold and less than 10% military GDP spending. Hitler showed the world HOW to achive financial independence from Jewry and for that he is villified.
IN reality, he made abortion illegal, lowered the age to own guns for Germans to 18, and made illegal the barbaric practice of Kosher slaughtering. Germany Child birth rates set records, families were subsidized to have children.
Life was never better for any group of people thats Germans in the 1930s. And thats what scares Jewry. Meanwhile your family was picking pruines in California happy to have any work they could, the Great Depression caused by the same Jews responsible for Germanys demise.
They were thrown out of the Judiciary, Government and education. And Germany prospered.
JB CAMPBELL tells it better than anyone here:
http://www.jbcampbellextremismonline.com/5/post/2012/05/preventing-jewish-rule.html
THANK YOU.I appreciate it ! I am not focused much on the note at all,it is just almost word for word what happened to my Note & MTG. That is one of the first no no’s I figured when reading left and right “show me the note”..it seems to be the first thing someone peeking into this world looks into. I have seen mostly no assignment not the other way around.
Do I need to watch what I say on here? I know this site is +++big – I’m not on the brink of cracking some bankster egg or whatnot….but can you hurt yourself talking too much about what you have – or your case- …it sounds silly but I am so damn paranoid the exact lawyer I am fighting will see this and “now what I have”……WI has a long redemption period….and I have maxed it out….I think. It starts from the time the judge rules you doomed or not or from when you get the summons? I’ve heard both…either way I’m past what they gave me. I know I have beginner questions but this is not all that big here and reading into such and such other state laws don’t really help. How long do these guys wait to file a MTD? I have high hopes I will succeed. Not from being a smart ass or anything,knowing a bit of what I’m doing and I live in a really good place.People are good. This kind of things happens not too much (so I’ve heard homeowner victor’s are also sometimes bound to keep hush hush..?) I filed a motion for discovery -I am sick of waiting they answered too. To me I feel it is a win in the end even if I have to walk away. A sad one – but a relief of not having to look over my shoulder the next how many years wondering when they screw me again. Like I said – TeePee. thank you for writing back…I did not know the note stuff was that severe…I figure if someone walks in saying …”that ‘T’ right there was forged! This is fraud brraaaagghh!” They are outski then & there. I made my payments- yeah, hit a small rough spot, but was not 3 months behind when they pulled this…I was paying them and they were sending the shit back. Maybe I can back everything I have accused (99% if I have misunderstood something) But that’s it – I am on here for a helper ( and anyone having any angst they have bitten the bullet and I have not, yet. I would not doubt I would get tossed for completely unconventionally approaching this. I don’t even know 100% if how I did was by court rules. You have 20 days to answer (granted I was onto this a bit before that, not by much) and whip your arse into understanding what you need to answer the summons & file cc…werow…for all I know the judge toss everything I have for a technicality.So – Fear not! ~ got your nightly laugh?~ You have to start somewhere right? I may throw a shit fit if Ioose and break down at one point…but thats ok. who wouldn’t? One word: Family. Debt is not much more than that note. It’s a piece of paper saying you owe some money. I have 2 munchkins. I am in my 20’s.That Piece of paper is not worth ruin. Holy sh*t I sound like a hippie. …I am not saying “out judges are great” dah dah …I am privileged enough to know the old *I.cant.say.* kind of on the wrong side there..baaaaaa. I don’t want a lawyer. It’s not his fight, I have written this so much all over here- and I know half you are reading these very words….evening!….If I loose I loose. that’s that. I am here trying to see what has worked and what has not worked ……yall bicker so much I know more about you from your frienimes than anything .Anywho…I hope people find their happy. Mine gets stuck in the shitter sometimes, wayyyy down there but you have to smack your self and wake up. One thing I get on here – idiocy of people and how we are really being broken down as America. Slowly but surely. Keep your chin up and look the other way. If all else fails go get a big effing gun. (not for bad purposes..)
“Anything done in a state court while the case was under Federal jurisdiction is void ab initio”
When did a state court have jurisdiction over the Federal Courts, no matter how good or bad the argument? That’s why they have these courts, checks and balances.
I, myself had a case in Federal Court and the same cats tried to go to the state court and file the same action, it didn’t work, actually it can lead to sanctions against the attorney.
And IMHO the state court does not have jurisdiction to hear commercial matters, quiet title yes, as it is a land issue, but UCC stuff, no.
And again, just my opinion, but a state judge that acted in any way contrary to the rules, which there are in every jurisdiction, a recusal should be filed or a complaint against their bond!
Poppy
I guess you read that wacko decision by Judge Schlesinger that came from a very simple order to show cause to MARK vacated a state court judgment signed in state court while the case was under federal jurisdiction (pursuant to US Elliot v Piersol)
If this illegal ruling by Judge Schlesinger stands it destroys The Supremacy Clause of our Constitution and the March3rd, 1875 Act of Congress which states: It was duty of the State Court to accept a Petition and proceed no further in such suit C137,Sect. 3 Stat.,
pt 3 P.470. The Record vested the Federal Court with complete Jurisdiction
The appellate Court tried to shield Judge Schlesinger so instead of following Federal law they lied and also changed the facts and changed the date my case was in Federal Court But you can’t change history and all the Federal Stamps ,Dockets, , Judges order etc shows they too like Judge Schlesinger are story tellers.
mL- ” because stripes had figured it out”
Thats a ridiculously sweeping statement, stripes figures out according to stripes interpretation, i was one of the first to try, and i did, try, to accept that we might tolerate the rants, but realise that THE only forum available to right the wrongs and that will matter in the long run are not blogging all blinkin day on here but what happens in the court room, so, excuse the pun- i rest my case.
To Deb
Stripes is right, these nazi commie foreigners can’t wait to buy American properties whether the titles are good or not .
@ Bob G
Judge Schlesinger on her 2008 decision referring to the judgments said –‘the judgments might not have been enforceable immediately” and then weaves a talke of how hokus pokus invalid judgments become valid . A JUDGEMENT IS EITHER VALID OR INVALID Judge Schlesinger claims the judgments signed in the state court while the case was under federal jurisdiction became good after the case was remanded That is not how the law works.
Anything done in a state court while the case was under Federal jurisdiction is void ab initio and if and when it comes back has to be done over in the state court to get a valid judgment.
All the judges knew that, If fact Judge David B Saxe said to David K Fiveson “did the state court do it over when the case came back from Federal Court
Mr Fiveson said he didn’t know . Innocent they weren’t Fiveson’s client Turner had been my Friend??? for thirty years and it was to her I practiced my oral arguments. They all knew they were buying forged and bad title . Fiveson couldn’t get Title insurance for the fraudulent documents So in court he made up the name of a company he called Coronet Title
Thomas Malone of Fidelity Title knew how to get around the issue of fraudulent documents Can you guess why, Bob?
The Judges all; knew so well what they were doing was illegal, immoral and criminal
That they changed the dates my case was docketed I Federal Court.
Deb
I do believe what Stripes, Poppy, John even UKG and many others are doing on this site is getting noticed by many people of authority including judges that are starting to know just cause they wear black robes they cannot pull the wool over everyones eyes including their own.
I am not even religious so I bypass those words of hers but she is sure getting it right what is happening in this Country .This is America everyone can come to their own conclusions.
ML, unfortunately Stripes looks like a nutjob, and we don’t need any of those. People with something helpful to say are scared off or do not feel they can reach the people they want to reach, because of the constant repetition, insults, name-calling, infantile paralysis and other egregious statements and activities.
Bob G
Typing error BRUTUM FULMEN
Words I learnt from Matt Weidner’s knowledge.
An empty noise An empty threat A VOID Judgment upon its face which is in legal effect no judgment at all, and by which no rights are divested and from which none can be obtained and neither binds nor bars anyone.
I thought you were an attorney How come you don’t know this stuff
Marilyn Lane
Go research the doctrine of Laches and then get back to us.
Bob G
Void Ab initio judgments are a nullity and nullities have no latches.
Bob,
This comment came from a lawyer, not mine. He is a real estate lawyer and told me: in the past year he has not seen one deal that real money has been transferred? Curious what implications that has?
I’m inclined to believe that most of the real estate sales we are seeing are by foreign investors and no actual cash is being used.
In CA the Chinese buying is on fire and they are overpaying the stated price.
Poppy, real money was not used in most of these transactions. It was a sham to create debt for the borrower WITHOUT lending any real money. The Chinese who are buying land and residences in this country are in for a rude awakening. You see, there are no creditors, only debt.
Again, IMHO, the judges are really stuck on you signing the note…you need to get past that.
IMHO opinion, as always…bond holders can only collect revenue streams, not houses. Nothing in a bond allows for collateral sales.
There are also millions of loans that never went into trusts, the SEC files are a ruse. The servicers cannot act under the PSA without a trust and the servicers many of us are dealing with right now are for bond holders or debt collectors. They are playing a game of words, semantics, if you will!
And REIT trusts are not the same as REMIC trusts…just saying. The holdings companies have put “their” so called holdings in REIT trusts, real estate investment trusts…and they are foreign entities, not U.S. holding corps. Check some of what I am saying it does go to authority and capacity to sue, collect payments and foreclose.
No legal advice, just babble from a layman
Marilyn lane
Judge Schlesinger dropkicked your silly ass out of court because of your frivolous and vexatious filings. You waited for over TEN years after your foreclosure sales before you started filing pro se actions in FEDERAL court to vacate the prior state court judgments and sales. I read the decisions…u r lucky u didn’t get sanctioned.
Bob G
You have the facts wrong I was in Federal Court before my two condos were auctiioned off illegally with void ab initio judgments
Void ab initio judgments are a nullity and time will never make them into valid judgments
Brutus Fulman
Bob G
I went to the auction and arrived early and made sure I handed the documented history of the case to let everyone that this was a fraudulent sale All the attorney read my papers and left saying This sale is not good The bank doesn’t own the properties
A Chinese serial straw buyer and a Greek won the properties. Stripes is so right these Nazi Commie foreigners are the threat to our United States Constitution,
Whether you want to hear it or not Stripes has figured it out . and the Americans have to fight for our Republic because of people like you not understanding what is happening
Neil
Please stop claiming CDS paid off the loans. They didn’t . Mono line pool level insurance may have paid down some portion of a pool in default, but not 100% of all the loan balances in the pool. That’s why the monoline insurers went BK. they couldn’t pay all the bankster and investor pool claims. So the lawsuits started flying from both sides. Firms like AIG were fraudulently induced to buy billions of the actual MBS. That’s why they went belly up.
I hope you are all sending e mails to the Federel Trade Commission on your experience or take on prohibiting Fidelity from buying back LPS DOCX or any company buying LPS DOCX a criminal enterprise whose business is making fraudulent documents
Carie
Nemo dat quod non habet, literally meaning “no one gives what he doesn’t have” is a legal rule, sometimes called the nemo dat rule, that states that the purchase of a possession from someone who has no ownership right to it also denies the purchaser any ownership title
Judge Alice Schlesinger gave possession of my two NYC condos to parties who “bought” them from two people who didn’t own them
Who is the Creditor? Who is the owner? A Judge like Alice Schlesinger of NYSC wore blinders as long as she got EQUITY.
By not allowing discovery of accounting records and saying they don’t care if the real creditor is named or not, the judges are allowing the debt collectors of unsecured debt to continue with the fraudulent foreclosures, and simply not ALLOWING anyone to show WHY it is all unsecured debt…and complete FRAUD.
The judges know it and don’t care, because of their pensions. Period.
“…Fannie and Freddie—-GSEs—-could not just sell the Note- on performing loans—- this would be securities fraud to the GSE security investors. The Note (and it’s receivable stream) HAD to be falsely placed in default—and charged-off (after de-regulation) in order to sell the “Note”—- but, when this happens the Note NO LONGER EXISTS—thus, all that is sold is collection rights to a once existing note.
Security investors fund the BANK—not the borrowers—there is no direct relationship between security investors and borrowers. If banks are able to sell their income stream, that is an accounting transaction—it is not a “loan” to borrowers. This is why security investors are NEVER the creditor.
Collection rights transfers are not funded by borrower transactions (ie fabricated refinance). Collection rights are transferred by assignment—not NOTES (which is why NOTES are fake). When some people here talk about Non-Deposit “trust” non-members—they are referring to derivative transactions—that “SWAP” out collection rights—although the credit enhancers pay cash for collection rights—they use insurance for the purchase of the rights. This is why the subprime was so profitable—the bank debt buyers put up no cash for transaction—but, were then able to profit by the “sale” of the receivable pass-throughs to security investors.. This is also why MBIA (insurance co.) legal action against BOA and others is hugely important.”
Marching in the streets is the only thing that will effect change.
When the judges say: “I don’t CARE who the real creditor is!!!!” (which they do)—then you know the courts are useless.
@justme, I hear you loud and clear, and you have valid points throughout. The problem remains….judges across the land are ruling for MTD for the bankster’s leaning towards 100% of the time. You can scream bloody murder or shout about Carpenter v. Longan all day long….the banks take the house and the judges slam the gavel.
And don’t get too cocky about the note and the mortgage being inseparable, or which follows which. The opposite of what you believe is the case in many instances and in many jurisdictions. Legal? No. But the judges, as usedkarguy said, are making up law as they go. In my neck of the woods, you’d better not even bring up the note, or they’ll throw the book at you before you’ve finished your sentence. You just can’t go there.
So, sure you can prove all of that stuff. But not if you don’t get to discovery, and that means surviving the MTD. It’s slanted poker table, and all of the chips run towards the banksters side of the table. Every time. Few ever get to discovery, and if you’re lucky enough to, they’ll wear you down for ever ignoring requests. Remember, all the adversary’s have just posted record quarters….BofA just announced a 70+% quarter. It’s free money being transferred from us, to them, so that they can continue to loot us all.
The above is exactly the kind of action that UKG was referring to about going after the judges on civil rights violations. The problem is, good luck finding any attorney to help you with that. Lawyers are reluctant to go after fellow lawyers, much less stick their necks out for the judges to hatchet. It’s a good old boys club, and as Carlin says, “We ain’t in it!”
Neil –
I can’t find the Fordham Law Review article either here on your site or at the Fordham Law Review web site. Can you please repost?
Thank you!
Never happen But we hope so
Sent from my iPhone
N
Sent from my iPhone
Stpogov
You make good points. Believe me my 80/20 – theres a lot wrong with recordings snd barely a peep out of the purported 2 nd liener. Bet if i started diggin i would end up in austrailia.One battle at a time though, cant sue everybody.
My concern is and have seen this multiple times, fraud is difficult, but agreed it is there, everywhere. But the bond route is fairly simple, if you think about this: if municipal entities sell bonds/debt to us for schools/roads/bridges…can we take the schools/bridges/roads back, under the conditions of the bond, if they don’t pay the bond? NO.
This where I think, the fraud really is, the conversion, the bond only carries collection rights, no rights to property and the fraud is when they come to court claiming they still hold the original promissory note for collection, No Way! IMHO
****Dear regulars, please take a moment to read my post.Kick back and take a break from your regular ‘chat’.Please and Thank you*****
The last NG blog post we had a few ppl address this issue of what “help” is vs. off topic oddball Agenda ….feel free to chime in…..or don’t….And just in case…..
“Nothing written in response, related to, or directed at this inquiry shall be nor will be taken as any legal advise for the author of this thread nor anyone else; and it nor be construed as anything other than anyone’s personal opinion excreta excreta… *signed*,justme”
If I can prove the “lender” is not the creditor (not fully thought up) and perhaps we can also throw in that with a statute you have previously written about ………..” Wisconsin Statutes, Chapter 134, 134.15 “Issuing and using what is not money; contracts void. (1)Any person who shall knowingly issue, pay out or pass, and any body corporate, or any officer, stock holder, director or agent thereof who shall issue, pay out or pass, or receive in this state as money or as an equivalent […]”……………If they cannot produce that wire transfer/check etc. …As well, proved definitely not the owner by the blatant self admitted on paper transfer to GNMA..not to mention it’s all regs & gnma face website they own the loan flat out and the servicer acts accordingly to maintain the account or how ever you’d like to word it in favor of Ginnie. SO no actual money trail they can provide, can’t prove ownership, below link AUTHOR POST name ; Scot, feb.22 2011 @ 11:39am is my case text book (almost)
http://livinglies.wordpress.com/foreclosure-defense-forms/people-players-and-resources/state-laws/wisconsin-law/
“…….The mortgage will always follow the assignment or transfer of the promissory note. But the promissory note will never ever follow the assignment of the mortgage. Please see US Supreme Court Decision CARPENTER V. LOGAN, 83 U. S. 271 (1872). “The note and mortgage are inseparable; the former as essential, the latter as an incident. An assignment of the note carries the mortgage with it, while an assignment of the latter alone is a nullity.” For that, they cite Jackson v. Blodget, 5 Cowan, 205; Jackson v. Willard, 4 Johnson, 43.V”…..
I have an assignment of Mortgage, ( that says together with the recorded note (which is not recorded) And I have a Note fresh after signing that was copied that has no endorsements….But their little copy of a copy DOES. …And….in a later Mod right on it’s face it says they sold assigned/granted the Note to MERS. That is not recorded. They sold(?) “PLACED” it with gnma – that was not recorded – and it’s required- and now it has looped back to them to foreclose? ….un perfected chain of title.
All over I keep hearing Neil say “you have 5 seconds to get my attention”….Then after that you have about 10 minutes to prove your case is worth hearing out…something like that……
so…What is the best attention getter?
Unclean hands – right from the bat? Sure but hard proof – they dont own it…? NOPE??… “the holder of the note is entitled to enforce the note” they (attorneys) say “ownership is NOT relevant” they say…ok…..
forgery? got it. check.
payments not applied to account? check.
loss of consideration? check.
Fraud, (several) fake applications, IRS tax corrections they fail to have records of, but I do. CHECK
Fake title insurance? CHECK. It does not exist! But I paid for it! It’s in writing straight from First American, does not exist.
MLO bankrupt. shut down. kaput.
Oh yeah – the previous owners – they didn’t get their mortgage released/have a satisfaction of mtg~~ so did the “lender/MLO/whoever” even have the legal right to make a loan on my house when it was collateral for someone else’s open loan with an entirely different bank> I have the Recorded records clear as day showing it. HUD said ….”well that is not right, that cannot happen”….National serving center insists my loan is a conventional, which is what most my papers & docs from pre loan to HUD-1 to recorded say but I have an FHA # & loan. I don’t like talking to these guys, would not give them much I think they are all in cahoots with the lenders…..something like that. If it were not for all the friken cahoots and the non existence of a chance that all these mtg eff ups could be rectified without causing a chaotic scene…bah. It’s not hard to see if all these rights were wronged it would be NUTS. Opposite depression, Eh?…….
Ginnie has TWO pooling numbers for my ONE account, same account number and all.
lender/creditor issue in Neils post – can that be bust if ownership does not matter?(WI) Is there a way around that? If proven,some of these little discrepancies I mention – do they even count?! For anything? Does it not mean squat? Hows that work!
I’ve written this countless times all over here and lots lots more.If you guys typically do not respond to anyone but the same handful of “regulars” which is pretty much what I see – can I get a heads up?! Is this place is no use but for . Neil’s original posts or what?! It’s like being at your favorite Pub in here, that you hate
Justme, I have been at this for over five years. I have several lawsuits and received a sett. agmt which is now breached. As you may have noticed, no real discovery has ever been brought out under any lawsuits across the country. What is that? Because discovery followed carefully and fully would blow the servicers and banksters out of the water. It is getting close now. We shall see. Don’t give up. Not all of us out here on this blog are nut cases.
Originators were pushing exotics like the 80/20 loan. Interesting fact is that 9 times out of 10 the 2nd lien is “defaulted” out of the civil case due to lack of response from the alleged creditor on the 2nd.
Research has revealed that not only in some cases the true 2nd lien holder was never notified but in cases like EMC Mortgage / Bear Stearns / NY FED and Maiden Lane LLC these 2nd mortgages actually “MADE” money and if that is the case it would only be fair to apply any gains on 2nd mortgages to the outstanding balance of the underlying 1st lien.
They have a lot riding on the court dockets and party information. The names of these parties may or may not match up to the names of the entities that have been served notice in the case. Pay very close attention to all names of entities that are listed as “party” or “participant” in these cases.
Of course since Jamie Dimon was on the Board of the NY Fed he cut his sweetheart deals and is not about to man up and admit that there was no loss on these 2nd mortgages.
Look at the origins of JPM and the Hall-Carbine affair and how most top internet search results quickly chalk this up to revisionist history. How quaint!
IMHO, origination fraud cancelled everything right from the beginning. Unfortunately, proving that is a problem. Moving right along to the servicing rights, where is our money going? Is it going to pay down the debt? I doubt that very much, because we see no creditors anywhere. If you take my own case, the so-called original creditor no longer exists. They went bankrupt in 2007. Who is the creditor? Very big question, which, if asked by a judge might elicit some very interesting answers or settlements, as the case may be.
When these guys converted the original promissory note to a secured bond/debt in our name, it changes the original contractual terms. IMHO, they no longer have rights under the original promissory note, after it was converted…they only have collection rights of the bond debt. This, IMO is why we have the shell game and no presentation of the original notes. The ramifications are great. No lender is able to collect the real property. That is why we have servicers foreclosing and counterfeit paperwork. If you notice ALL of these cases are based on collection rights, not lenders losses…not a one of them. The real lender never shows his/her face in court, think about it!
Collection rights created from a bond, is not the same as real-legal collection rights, under the promissory note, secured by the DOT. The bond in and of itself, does not create authority to foreclose, it has removed the link to and from the original contractual provisions and rendered all the remedies under the contract void, not voidable.
Not a lawyer, no advice here!