Editor’s Note: I don’t want to get technical but it is quite necessary in order to understand a corroboration of my statements regarding (a) whether a loan is secured (b) whether the terms of repayment to the creditor were stated the same way in both the offer to the investor-lender and the borrower and (c) the identity of the creditor with a “loan receivable” as well as the status the account designated as loan receivable for a particular borrower.
The bottom lone is that this is all about money, not documents. UCC arguments may be used to bolster your position and provide the judge with a pathway out of the thorny thicket, but the initial attack must be on the debt itself, to wit: if the judge thinks you are attempting to argue your way out of a legitimate debt, you’ve already lost and no amount of legal theory, forgeries in the assignment chain or other skullduggery is going to change the ultimate result. In plain language there is no legitimate debt owed to either the current forecloser or it’s predecessors. In fact there is no debt at all owed to any of these parties.
The documents are a mere ruse to create the appearance of a loan when none existed. And conversely the lack of documents on the actual loan between the actual lender and the borrower is used to discredit the argument that there was a difference between the fake loan and the real one. But if you follow the actual money and the documents that actually show payments in and out of an escrow account that was referred to under various alias names, the conclusion is inescapable: the actual loans of actual money were neither voluntary nor secured.
Europe seems far more willing to tackle these thorny issues than the U.S. And so they will get to the goal post of stability ahead of us. They understand that there well might be the case in derivatives that they could be neither secured nor even of any value if they refer to a transaction that never existed. We refuse to consider that possibility on ideological grounds. This type of behavior will collapse our reputation with third world nations whose people’s perception of the world is more magical and spiritual than the current consensus amongst developed nations.
European bankers accept as a fact that derivative contracts might yet be required to be secured, since they are mostly not secured now. They understand that there really is no actual loan receivable account because the investment bankers replaced it with a mortgage bond deriving it’s value from a prospectus and pooling and servicing agreement, together with other “securitization documents” whose terms were completely ignored when the bankers moved the money around.
Europe’s bankers and regulators seem to have no problem in tackling the issue of over-collateralized on and cross collateralization when that specifically means that it exacerbates the issue of secured and unsecured creditors when the loan proceeds are used to fund the shortfall or default of another loan, contrary to the express terms of the borrower’s note, which, as we have said, is neither evidence of the creditor nor evidence if the terms of repayment as said terms were presented to the investor-lenders.
In litigation, this is the reason why banks and servicers are refusing to disclose basic issues of fact that would ordinarily be part of their initial pleading and exhibits if they were filing Foreclosures properly or giving proper instructions to the trustee. Discovery reveals that the documented transaction is a complete farce or ruse while the actual transaction (where money exchanged hands) has very little documentation.
They would be forced to stop foreclosing (a) because they can never prove they are the owner if the loan receivable for which the alleged note is proceeded as evidence and (b) they have no way of demonstrating much less corroborating the existence of a perfected lien. The recorded lien is a wild deed based upon a non-existent monetary transaction. Any further documentation arising out of a wild deed brings nothing of substance to the table.
This is where my approach has differed somewhat from the approach of Max Gardner. everything that Max explains is true and is excellent corroboration for the attacking the legitimacy of the debt, but the main attack must be on the legitimacy of the debt, lest homeowners continue to get stuck in the rabbit hole of arguing that deficiencies in the transfer of a legitimate debt somehow rendering the debt uncollectable. Attacking the transfers is am implicit admission of the legitimacy of the original debt recited in the fake note and mortgage. Attacking the origination of the debt as being faked, merely requires you to demand proof of what every other lender has been required to provide the court, without which, the court cannot allow foreclosure or collection.
This seems to be the approach getting the least traction in court rooms because it appears as a gimmick. Providing the judge with pleadings, discovery and proof that there existed both a fake transaction and a real one accepts the fact that there is a legitimate debt and gives the judge a choice of which path to take.
Asset-Encumbrance: What will happen to unsecured bank bonds?
http://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/EN/Fachartikel/fa_bj_2012-07_asset-encumbrance_en.html
16 thoughts on “Documented Faked Debt vs Undocumented Real Debt:”
This is interesting
Thanks Johngault, that is my plan. To get an attorney to pick up the ball.
I’d really like for someone the elaborate on their thoughts of my other questions on Neil’s followup post :No Loan Receivable Account Exists
Mary, sorry, one more: were you the winner on that mtn? If so, you were prob the party to have provided the court with an order to sign.
Don’t do such a thing yourself, if so. Get a lawyer to get clear on ths and to do it if that’s the case. If the lawyer doesn’t want to make an entry of appearance, ask her about limited rep in preparing the order on your behalf.
Courts often write their own, but I would think a court could stand on
not being provided one if it wanted to. Ask a lawyer.
Mary – oops missed that the judge set for trial. That says to this lay person he denied the mtn. But his missing written denial would give one a necessary clue on what basis he denied the mtn.
There is an old adage of the law “there is no trial without discovery’ and I had case law, and yes, I can’t find it. Just what it is these days probably because I have tomes, truly. I no longer remember case names and bottom lines like I used to. None of us can when we don’t practice day in and out and use that stuff routinely. Plus aging takes its toll on some of us. Please ask an attorney about case management lest you find yourself at trial with no discovery. She will probably tell you you need to file some things, things critical for you. I think you’re in line for a settlement or case conference and a discovery plan. Please ask a lawyer.
@mary – you know I’m not an attorney, but if a judge does not rule in x amt of time, I think it may be taken the mtn is denied. The answer is prob found in the rules of procedure for that venue. (state, fed) But, an order is not final until it’s reduced to writing. Only clues I have. What good is it that it’s not final because not written? Probably has something to do with an appeal – appeal might be “interlocutory” because order not final. If an order is not reduced to writing, how does one ask for recon in that court if one wanted to? I don’t know – file a mtn to ask the court to reduce to writing? But would one actually want that? Try yahooing “finality of order” “order to be in writing to be final”
“when the court doesn’t rule” and hunt and peck or will have to pay a lawyer. Your goal is to find the rules of procedure which address your question. Procedure is complicated and the banksters are masters of the nasty art of deception and trickery. One of the many reasons we lose.
If you saw the movie Thrive, there was at least one part useful to all, and it was the heirarchy of control. The people were beneath the government and it was layers down in the control structure.
Government was controlled by corporations which were controlled by banks, which were controlled by bankers, and so on.
So anyone thinking O or Congress are making the decisions, they are missing a key piece of the puzzle.
You catch them on the fraud against the Creator…because the Creator came first and all else was ‘created’ by those with the Creator within.
Their actions cannot trespass, that’s why they act like everything is agreement, and now everything is coming apart because it is not agreement.
It cannot collapse like a ‘house of cards’ or there will be disorder and chaos, so it’s a controlled demolition of what was created a long time ago.
Right now, the situation is debt slavery, peonage. You cannot make someone labor for payment of a debt. When the debt is proven to be fiction, you cannot deny someone their right to property over a fictictious debt and you can’t make them work to repay something that isn’t real.
People had to wake up to that fact first and then reveal the fraud.
Why is it going on for so long now that it’s being exposed?
There’s so much more to expose, and so many more to expose.
Look at it like this. A superior court judge comes up with a ruling that an entity cannot foreclose, but there are judges that ignore that precedent. Well you have to rout them out and you can’t unless each judge has an opportunity to hear a case that brings that same fraud to light.
You have banks that have CEO’s and CFO’s who know through some deposition that banks don’t own the loans they claim on their books because there are no allonges and no assignment paperwork, and trusts are empty.
They have their own auditing departments, they are bound by GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Practices (?)) and they continue as if the debt is real, as if the obligation is real, and as if their right to steal property is protected over removing life from their property.
You give them time to reverse or correct their deeds and if they turn a blind eye to the actions of their corporation that is affecting ‘life’ which came first, and by their deeds they are judged.
This is the culmination of the fraud, and the revelation (“disclosure of information to man by a divine or supernatural agency”). Then those that don’t belong are judged out of our existence so that those that have remained true to the original Trust can remain.
So keep exposing it, and keep looking for new ways to expose it.
If the ‘bald eagle’ can be protected in its habitat because it’s a life, so can we. We are alive. We are a life. No fiction nor corporation has any power to decide whether we can live or die.
BUT, they can ignore us if they say, “Well we didn’t know they were alive. We thought they were a corporation, so it’s not personal, it’s just business against business.”
Using attorneys keep the fiction alive. Attorney A represents a bank corporation, attorney B represents a ‘person’ by their legal definition a person is statutory in order to fall under their law, and a statutory person is not alive…it’s an association, a corporation, a conservatorship, etc..
Life is not statutory. Life is not just a fictitious body with no soul
Life is real. Corporeal. Life has a soul, a light, a divine spark of the Creator, and a conscience.
Ignore it all we want, and as crazy as the hole in Alice’s’ Wonderland is, it’s all topsy turvy and upside down and backwards.
When I woke up, I could not un-know what I now know.
Life came first from the creepy crawly, to the flying and swimming and walking, and corporations were created by man so they do not have the same standing.
Any judge, who in his interest supports the fiction over life, has his signature to thank for his own judgment…ironically how he judges is how he’s judged.
That rule to judge not that you are not judged is a powerful Universal rule.
We will receive our rights to property back, but don’t give up and don’t let go.
Some people who are fighting for their homes may be fighting to hold a home that belongs to someone else before they purchased it.
You have to know if you are the true owner or if there is another true owner…just because you win while this fraud is going on doesn’t mean you’ve won when all is revealed.
QT won’t work for many because the home probably belongs to someone else in the chain of title and you can’t lock them out by claiming title, first.
We’ve all been deceived.
I would love to be back where I was peacefully enjoying life and property before someone set in motion a chain reaction that caused the evacuation of a building by threat of force.
I did not move out until I read the ‘writ of possession’ that said anyone could put their hands on me and my property to remove us from our property.
When I saw that act of war against the free people, in violation of the Lieber Code, I packed up like a displaced refugee and got out of there before the war came to my front door.
The one coming to remove me was going to be carrying a weapon and could use force.
This war is internal, and I’m hoping all these Executive Orders come to a fruition such that when the signing of the right one, the go ahead is given to pick up every last one who ‘by now knows what they are doing’, and put them in indefinite detention for their force and control over the rest of us.
I wait patiently and it won’t be long.
If someone is missed, we can just point to their document, judged, filed, or otherwise and say, look, here’s the evidence where they did this, and where they were told that they were causing harm and they chose to ignore it; and they get removed to spend time thinking about what they did…lots of time…indefinite time…and no legal team to waste time and nonsense…it’s proven now…which is a good thing…that the legal system is not a system of justice and does not operate by the ‘rule of law’, it’s a system of opinion and power and procedure.
No one should lose a case or their property due to lack of form (procedure) in a system they do not belong in, in the first place. If we speak our conscience, or respond to a claim with words from our conscience, that should be enough to referee a claim of a loss of right or privilege.
I should be able to walk into any court who wants to evict (dispossess) me and say in Good Conscience, I don’t owe them, my property was stolen, and have as much right as the one with all the fancy paperwork and the endless ‘credit’ payable to them as income for stealing it.
The entire system is a bogus fraud, a fiction, and we need to stop participating in it…so many have not even gone to court, have lost the case and still own the home. Why? ..because paperwork no matter how many sheets you stack, don’t lie…and if key paperwork is missing you have the real truth no matter how many signatures you fake.
If I knew who I owed money (and there is no money, there is only debt), I’d have paid them, but I knew I didn’t owe the law firm nor the company the law firm represented when my home was stolen.
Seeing the MERs ruling about being an assignee and having no standing…there are so many foreclosures that were done that way.
The courts destroyed the notices that were ‘filed’ (not recorded).
It was temporary paperwork that was supposed to temporarily establish the right to steal.
I had the notice as part of the answer and exhibit in the case with the court that let them steal.
Due to lack of form, I was not going to win and I didn’t want to ‘know’ their system because I didn’t belong there.
Who can learn their system in 21 days anyway? It was an unconscionable contract by force to have to go there and have proper procedure in 21 days.
Unconscionable contracts and contracts by force are void ab initio (from the beginning, at inception).
It’s all fraud, no statute of limitations, it’s all void, it’s all fiction, and it’s all War.
So many judges have the info to reverse their decisions and stand by them as if they have some ‘Cosmic Power’ over the Universe.
Universal energy is against the very ‘charges’ they stand by.
Where there is a charge, there is a discharge.
We are witnessing a war on our soil, and enemy within, it is economic terror. When the ones that can remove this terror start their work, do not fear their presence unless you are part of the problem.
Pulling out a weapon against one who would help you, would make them think you are not one who needed help.
The outcome will not be pleasant.
If you are peaceful, you are peaceful no matter what circumstances are presented.
The peaceful will inherit the earth.
No more war.
My testimony as a state, a people, life, light, and with the unalienable divine rights of the Creator.
Trespass Unwanted, life, free and independent state, corporeal, In Jure Proprio, Jure Divino
usedkarguy:
The Plaintiff attorney was ordered to write the order which they did, sent me a copy. The Judge has yet to sign it. I am in Florida and his law clerk, told me a Judge has 90 days to sign an order.
Does anyone know that for certain…..and if not what steps could I take to have this Judge sign the order?
Mary, did you write the order? did your attorney? Your opposition won’t write the order if they lost.
That’s why you people need attorneys.
How do you follow the $ to even begin to prove the docts are an illusion? Logically, I thought I could request info from the title company who stonewalled me. I requested funding instructions from the defunct broker to the title company.
Any thoughts?
Shelly – reading those qt – daily – they fail hands down here – even the really well worded ones by good attorneys – judges stuck on tender for one thing among others (like no judicial notice of the sec posted files) even though there is plenty of case precedent and good judge articulation here and there – now showing otherwise especially in federal court (can’t do qt there can you?) anyway get a ruling in federal court maybe “permanently enjoined” or something and then go back to local court for qt….very hopeless though and attorneys won’t even try. Maybe it takes a pro se to try….wish there was help and coaching for that though by attorneys who get it but still don’t wish to try…..
Can anyone tell me, how long does a Judge have to sign the order for denying Motion for Summary Judgement?
We had a hearing in early June, whereby the Judge denied Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Final Judgement and I have yet to get the order nor has there been one signed and filed into the record. He did schedule for trial.
Info would be appreciated.
Thanks so much, having a time finding such answer.
I highly recommend trying to find an attorney, if you can not go to the court house lookup a case of quiet title and all their briefs and follow it. Proceedure can make you loose or win the case. look up case law in your state for quiet title. http://www.scribd.com/doc/43059595/Provost-v-Diversified-Financial.
Shelly – I’m in CA. Banker template still permeates the court rulings in this state ( and robot cites of high court nonsense rulings ignoring the occasional intelligent rulings of a few judges who properly differentiate those rulings case by case) ….now that I am actually reading the tenative rulings – eye opening but clues there what to say and not to say. For one thing never ever say – if secururitized – no debt -no mort – that is if you are serious about holding on to the home (I do get it – all of the “theories” are actually true in one way or another but the judges don’t get it or won’t accept it and there is the rub).
RE eminent domain…it’s a govt action. I hope Neil is shouting loud and clear to those promoting this “solution”. Govt has the power to compel the stuff needed doesn’t it? Time to do it or be exposed as just another sham bankster with a govt badge now competing with the sham banksters they have been in bed with. When the banksters of all sorts finally get it that freeing the homeowners from the sham is actually now in their own interest we might get somewhere.
JoAnn. if you are in Washington state there is a group of attorneys that are doing this on contingency and pro bono. The new cases of MERS and RECONTRUST have made it easy for the attorneys to win. It was hard to find an attorney that would fight the banks before these cases happened. In the last six months it has become easier to find help.
With NO PROOF OF A LOAN THAT NEVER HAPPENED, RIGGED LIBOR INTEREST RATES, DECEPTION AT EVERY PEEL OF THE ONION, CPA VIOLATIONS DEED OF TRUST VIOLATIONS, CONTROLLED FRAUD, ACTS OF RICO AND TREASON, AND THE CASES DECIDED IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON, WITH MANY STATES EXSPECTED TO FOLLOW. HOW CAN ANY GOVERNMENT CLAIM THEY CAN EMENIENT DOMAIN PROPERTY THAT BELONGS BY LAW TO THE HOMEOWNERS. No mortgage against the property! Imment domain is not for the good of the people, this is steeling citizens property to make up for city funds lost due to the government enabling the crimes of the banks and not protecting the people which is their duty and they would not be broke, the investors and homeowners would not be screwed. The AG’s screwed the investors and homeowners from being protected by our government, without paying millions and more to litigate against their crimes. The pension funds having to pay out for the banks crimes and not the banks. The entire world economoy is in termoil due to the lack of regulation control and sanctions to make the banks pay and thousands to go to jail. But whoa the government does not want the homeowners to have a windfall due all this enabled corruption. I am so miffed. And outraged! The banks need to put the money back into the city funds. Back into the investment funds and pensions they flat out stole. Our government has not made them accountable for nothing. But feels the homeowners should be victimiized because we are on the bottom of the food chain, when it is our govenments duty to protect its tax payers. The slaves should not recieve a windfall, no matter what the law is.
I would understand after a certain allowed amount of time, after the the homeowner is given notice of the unlawful foreclosure and sale, if no one comes for the house, that eminent domain, may take place to prevent property detriation and neighborhood ruin. If the house is sold the money should be put into a fund for the homeowner to collect someday just like uncollected funds are held by the government for people to file and collect them. Not to put into the pocket of the government gone south due to bank crimes that should be sanctioned to pay the moneys stolen back by bank funds stolen.
I get it. Where is the attorney who can do this on contingency….or where are the templates to assist pro se in getting to the discovery….
I know – very unpopular question. Cost of litigation evades most homeowners though…how do we attack this in mass – it needs to be done….
One thing though – it is the recorded docs and “you got the funds as in refi – or you got the house as in purchase with a mort” didn’t you” that the judges look at first and foremost – how to get from A to Z and get the accounting that is supposed to be reflected in the paper (which it is not)……how to carefully get there without the “free house? – you’re out – get out”…..ruling…..very tricky – it seems to me you have to work backward in stages to get back to the origination (now over five years for most) especially when you have companies like Chase saying they have no liability for WAMU originations ect. and then judges won’t even go there….right or wrong – it is what is happening….
I did read Neils doc on forgery though in previous post – interesting case precedent definition – it has taken me a few years to finally get it how to actually link to the docs he provides – you have to click a few times….and many of these are gold….anyway so wish an attorney would boldly go where none have gone before just for the heck (truth) of it and find a way to get paid from damages or something….maybe join a bunch of cases together…seems like it would work to take a bunch from the same trust and make the same points for all….